Besnardm

Fluffy Baby Bunny

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195 Posts
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I notice a large amount of people debating that porn is/isn't art and that also spamming nudes is there way of expressing art, but when does it just become porn and no longer a art form?

 

 

EllyMarks

Fluffy Toddler Bunny

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260 Posts
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Nudity can be an art, and film-making can be a craft...But, I guess it's when it seems to just be made for onlookers to (pardon me) wank off to and that's the end of it. If there's nothing that makes a person think more deeply than usual or stirs something in their soul.

People can have different takes on it, of course, take Bouguereau's nude paintings (like his Venus) and just treat it like porn instead of something to admire the skill and shading and anatomy and mythological stories of...and it will become porn to that individual.

Maybe some people can find artistic value and profound commentary on human nature in Two Girls, One Cup...? (If you haven't watched that, please, I beg of you, do not look it up!)

It's very contextual and there are going to be outliers, but as somebody out to appreciate art, I guess the difference is if it makes me a better person or if it merely perpetuates aggression and inequality between the sexes and makes sex "ugly"? Even if it's not literally ugly, is the message, intent, and context that the intent blossoms in all just...ugly? Then it won't be art to me.

 

CharButler

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Here are my thoughts on porn.
I find that some porn is just trash. It certainly serves its purpose...
visual/video porn i mean certainly does. You watch it, it has nudity, it has things that turn you on and people like to get off to it. Whether you are single, or you are enjoying with a partner, people enjoy it; its why it is so damn popular lol.
I wouldn't really say that it is "art"
However, there are some videos that use excessive nudity and there is a story and a beauty about it - not just hard core pornography. That could certainly be considered artistic.
Now; I also have a point to make about erotica.
I am a writer of erotica. I have no shame in saying I am a very sexual person, and find art, love and joy in writing and reading - and i certainly consider my writing to be art and not just "smutt" like some people would call it.I write with the best of my artistic abilities.
If something really moves you and makes you feel something... isn't it art?

 

Herald

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Porn is never an art. It is perversion. It is a degradation of something beautiful (sex). The very word "porn" itself means that it is immoral. True art is never immoral. If people now find it an art, then it shows how deep we have gone into being perverse.

The ones who are saying that it is an art are those people in the porn industry and those who support it. 

 

CharButler

Growing Baby Bunny
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I wouldn't go that far! ..
I am certainly not in the porn industry at all!
I am a mother of 3 with wonderful values and morals.
However, I guess what i should say is that I think that erotica and Erotic pictures, nudity, the body, can be very artistic.
Fake screaming women with fake boobs and fake orgasms,.. is no not art. lol

 

WillaCatherFan99

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I think there's a huge difference between porn and naked bodies. Porn is specifically created for you to masturbate to- they are quick films with no artistic value. There's a reason porn stars can do something like 45 films a month. However, there are highly sexual films with a lot of nudity that I think are art, because there is a story that moves you, and a point to the nudity besides "hey, look. A naked body". That being said, it's all subjective, isn't it? What moves me might not move you.

 

EllyMarks

Fluffy Toddler Bunny

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260 Posts
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I wouldn't go that far! ..
I am certainly not in the porn industry at all!
I am a mother of 3 with wonderful values and morals.
However, I guess what i should say is that I think that erotica and Erotic pictures, nudity, the body, can be very artistic.
Fake screaming women with fake boobs and fake orgasms,.. is no not art. lol

I recently sat in for a lecture about the history of feminism, and especially Catharine MacKinnon who believed that most pornography eroticized domination and marginalized women. Fake orgasms, like you said, aren't exactly uplifting society in a way that art should.

The thing is that society is basically a powerplay everywhere, gender warfare, ageism, lookism, disability discrimination...so, pornography could very well be more of a consequence than a cause. It's a feedback loop, but...

Well, in that feedback loop there's the potential to then project empowerment and centering the woman's experience. But it's not likely. Like, the movie Jennifer's Body was written by women about queer women, performed by actors who believed in the story, but to watch it well it just comes off as a show put on for more objectification of women. And, I read a review of Marquis de Sade's Juliette that said it brought attention to the abuse of women and so was actually a feminist erotica novel. I actually read the book, and I think it's weird that the reviewer saw it that way, even though I can kind of see some hits in the misses. (No pun intended.)

I mean, the Marquis wrote from the point of view of Juliette, who is perpetually sexually abused. Why would he empathize with that character if he'd intended to marginalize and objectify her sexually? Instead, he turns her into the subject, and gives her a voice. On the other hand, it's a doorstopper novel about her being perpetually sexually abused so I'm guessing that the Marquis didn't mind being in that realm all that much while writing!

I think there's a huge difference between porn and naked bodies. Porn is specifically created for you to masturbate to

That being said, it's all subjective, isn't it? What moves me might not move you.

For the reason of that last line, I can't say that the defining feature is the creator's intention, like "specifically created for you to--" do whatever.

Like, I just finished reading The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland in a Ship of Her Own Making and I would love to make a movie out of that! The problem? She gets naked. So would a movie version of The Neverending Story that was true to the book, Sebastian got naked too, because nudity can be a symbol in fiction of a return to innocence or something.

But if you show a naked kid on a screen, then perverted people are going to look at it in a way that it's not supposed to be looked at, and no creator can stop them from interpreting it that way because we can't say that the reader or viewer is ever wrong about their experience of the work. It'll be especially disappointing going in the opposite direction, too: censors saying, "Nope, can't show a naked kid because nudity is such a culturally charged issue. We don't see it that way, of course, but it's our job to worry that other people will."

So, it's definitely a tangle.

Especially because these are fictional characters, who essentially don't have agency. Compared to real people, if somebody's a nudist and another person pervs on them for being one, then the first person can stand with their personal philosophy that they own their body--not the pervert, whatever the pervert is doing to it in their own mind--and that somebody with such a limited life experience that nudity must always be sexual is just sad and pathetic and doesn't get the whole human experience thing.

Fictional characters and representations don't have that, so they really just become a sort of proxy between the conflicts of artist and audience.

 

umbrellaausten

Growing Baby Bunny

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Nudity, for me, is art. Thus, nude modeling is very interesting for me.

When it comes to film, I think that those that they tag as "hardcore" films are no longer art. They are just so... tactless. When I see films like those that involve underage females or males, I just feel sick. I do not understand why some people find that arousing.

 

EllyMarks

Fluffy Toddler Bunny

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260 Posts
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When I see films like those that involve underage females or males, I just feel sick. I do not understand why some people find that arousing.

I feel sick that some people find that arousing, and that censors have productions conform to those sick people who do find it arousing, instead of there being a way to say, "Those are kids. You're not even supposed to be thinking like that." And reinforce it.

And, hey, why not make the nudity of adults, especially adult females, a neutral thing as well? Let bath scenes just be about hygiene.

But I don't find any nudity, in and of itself, sick. Nudity shouldn't have to always be interpreted sexually.

 

CharButler

Growing Baby Bunny
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23 Posts
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EllyMarks, I found what you said very interesting. I may even need to order a couple of the books you talked about because I find all of this interesting.

I also have to agree that when it comes to children and such, I do not want to hide them away from things like people being naked when they are supposed to be. If my children come in while I am in the bath, I know that it is normal and they know that it is normal. It's just important to teach your children about right touch and wrong touch and where its okay to be naked and where it isn't okay to be naked.

Post Merge: 07:47am Thu, Sep 18, 2014
But there are some REALLY different points of views happening here:) I like it.

 



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Michael (Besnardm) is a Animator who has made 195 posts since joining Creative Burrow on 04:13am Sun, Mar 2, 2014. Besnardm was invited by Bunny.

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